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09 July 2014 @ 08:52 am
One my party policies  
If someone has a restraining order against you, you are not welcome at a party I'm hosting, ever.
harimad on July 9th, 2014 01:47 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry that you've had occasion to formulate this policy.
What do you think we are, Monkeys on Sticks???goat on July 9th, 2014 02:22 pm (UTC)
That seems like a sound policy.
veek on July 9th, 2014 02:22 pm (UTC)
That's a solid policy.
drwexdrwex on July 9th, 2014 02:55 pm (UTC)
Sam H.smammy on July 9th, 2014 05:18 pm (UTC)
Thank you.
our lady of perpetual amusementdakotakym on July 9th, 2014 09:06 pm (UTC)
While I understand the sentiment & respect your right to instill whatever boundaries you choose, I've also known folks who have been falsely accused of aggression & had restraining orders filed against them without just cause. However, if the reason for the restraining order is legit, I absolutely agree.
Antarctica, Winter 1982: Warrenivorjawa on July 10th, 2014 08:09 pm (UTC)
This. Having been through my parents' divorce, I'm not going to judge someone based on a restraining order until I know the details.
sol3sol3 on July 10th, 2014 11:39 pm (UTC)
You know what, though, I'd rather err on the side of assuming the restraining order is legit, and finding out later that it wasn't[1], than err on the side of assuming that the restraining order is not legit, and letting some abusing asshat into my environment. The ramifications of getting this wrong are much much much stronger on one side than the other.

[1] especially in situations where I am nowhere near close enough to be able to have facts. Though, from what I understand about what kicked this whole storm off, there really wasn't a whole lot of question about the legitimacy of said restraining order.
cheveux sable with earworm rampant: the handlcohen on July 11th, 2014 03:29 pm (UTC)
so very much this. i am so tired of "but what if the accusations are unfounded?" as an excuse to let every wandering asshole into our gatherings. unfounded accusations are a small small problem; people being attacked and abused is a huge problem. and what are the ramifications for the falsely accused person in our hypothetical situation? they didn't get to go to a party. what are the ramifications if the restraining order was in place for a darned good reason and it's ignored? which thing is worse?
our lady of perpetual amusementdakotakym on July 11th, 2014 05:48 pm (UTC)
This is an entirely reasonable response. Not wanting socially inappropriate, potentially violent individuals in ones's private space is something I agree with and am in favor of. Being close to people who have been maliciously accused of false wrongdoing and had restraining orders filed as "punishment" after a messy breakup colors my stance quite a bit on the specific restraining order point. Having been stalked by a crazy person who lurks about the local "community", and having had the cops absolutely fail in their response to the situation, also affects my perception.
I've since learned what the original post is in response to, and in this situation, the reason for the restraining order is more than justified, and I am in agreement with the original assertion of this post. I also don't think that a restraining order is enough protection or deterrent, and that the person who filed it should seriously think about carrying for personal protection (if she doesn't do so already), as it's nigh impossible for the cops to get there in time even if they were to put forth a valiant effort to do so.
Magical Truthsaying Bastard Shadesongshadesong on July 12th, 2014 01:28 pm (UTC)
(I'm at Readercon all weekend with only brief moments at my laptop; any responses from me will be delayed. Arora, thank you for having that policy in place! )

Speaking specifically as the person who holds the RO in this specific case, I don't carry, because I have issues from way back about handguns; I'm not anti-them for others, but I feel massively uncomfortable with them, and pushing past that much discomfort would put me at a big disadvantage in a situation where I'd need to use it anyway. :/ I will be applying for a carry permit for pepper spray (after Readercon), and I know what places to stomp and kick in order to incapacitate an attacker so I can get away and get help. (Further data point: I am 4'11", 105 pounds, and have some disability issues that flare sometimes; I can't win a fair fight.)

But besides that, I just wanted to thank you for realizing how serious the situation is (and thus the recommendation to carry). I feel like a lot of the "never call the cops" stuff on various posts elides the fact that there is an active danger to the person holding the RO from the person it's against, so much so that the perpetrator's presence does mean impending severe violence in most cases.
tigira on July 9th, 2014 09:20 pm (UTC)
No problem.
What do you think we are, Monkeys on Sticks???goat on July 10th, 2014 03:56 am (UTC)
Can we add "no known rapists" to this as well?
ruthless compassion: martini handsaroraborealis on July 10th, 2014 11:57 am (UTC)
Yeah. I mean, I actually have an extensive list of behaviors that will guarantee that someone is never welcome in my home or at a gathering I'm hosting. Rape, assault, other violent actions, if I know about them are absolutely included. Others that are actually in play more often are "being creepy" and making people uncomfortable -- and these are obviously more vague, but I don't feel the need to reach a legal standard of evidence to decide I don't want someone around me or in my space.

And that list is far from exhaustive! But I have absolutely ZERO interest in trying to take an inclusive or "fair and balanced" approach to this kind of thing. My friends (and a lot of my extended community!) are generally the cream of the crop, IMO, and I see no reason to dilute that with shit.
What do you think we are, Monkeys on Sticks???goat on July 10th, 2014 06:50 pm (UTC)
So much yes.
our lady of perpetual amusementdakotakym on July 11th, 2014 07:25 pm (UTC)
This comment makes me keenly aware of how much I enjoy spending time with you, and of how much I miss being able to do that more easily. If you are ever inclined to venture out to the woods of NH, you have an open invitation to do so here.
Paulo: Glassesearthling177 on July 10th, 2014 06:52 am (UTC)
Thank you!
Ellenkeyne on July 10th, 2014 03:21 pm (UTC)
I know you already responded to this on G+, but since most of the kerfuffle has been here on LJ I want to say it again for the record:

I spent an hour this [yesterday] morning reading the background on this — and no matter how one feels about the various participants and their behavior, I am boggled that supposedly reasonable people decided on a different standard than yours and have a vocal contingent supporting it.

Fortunately, I and mine won't be attending any of their parties. I'd happily come to yours. 
Boring Nerdsignsoflife on July 10th, 2014 06:07 pm (UTC)
Drawing aside the veil: I had no inkling of anything until reading S.'s post to G+ about new party policies. I actually muted that post immediately, because being told "You cannot call the police, we will decide if the police are necessary" hit my rape triggers. That's in the absence of any background on the current clusterfuck.
Kcatkcatalyst on July 10th, 2014 08:03 pm (UTC)
Oh. My. God.

Having just waded through backstory, all I can say is there are some situations where it's all they said/they said and who really knows what happened. And then there are others where people are straight up saying what their priorities are and how they make their choices and I'm all like "You do realize you just said that out loud on the internet and you think you're defending yourself, right?" :-(

Glad to hear I can continue feel safe at your parties, although I didn't doubt it!
cheveux sable with earworm rampant: the handlcohen on July 11th, 2014 03:30 pm (UTC)
i know!! i can't believe some of the things that people are saying out loud. so may asses showing. the mind reels.